Dino Veronese Interview 10/07/2024

Dino Veronese Interview Transcription

I'm gonna start recording. This is Dylan Yates. I'm here with Dino Veronese at 35 Prospect Park West on October 7, 2024. So what is your relationship or connection to Park Slope or to Brooklyn generally? Well, I was born here.

I think that's a very good collection connection. I was born in the Methodist Hospital, which is now part of the Presbyterian thing. But I was born in the Methodist Hospital, as were my siblings and my cousins and so forth. That's why I live in Parslope. I've been here.

I lived here all my life with the exception of 2 years when I was in the, United States Army, where I was stationed down at, in Georgia, Fort Benning, Georgia, which is around Columbus, Georgia. And, other than that, I've lived here all my life. And what what year were you born, and what years do you think you went to Georgia? I went, I I was born in August of 1933, which now makes me 91 years old. Wow.

Your question about When were you in the army? I was in the army through the 2 years. Let me think a minute. I think it was from 1957 through 1959. And do you have, is there one particularly important piece of information about Park Slope or memory of Park Slope that you would wanna share with future generations?

Well, I mean, there are a lot of memories, very many, many happy memories, a few bittersweet ones. I mean, I've seen things here and, that are nice, things that aren't so nice. I feel very, very encouraged that through the years, the area gets better, in many, many ways, but at the same time, it becomes sort of the area where people are being outpriced. It's not easy. It's cheap to live here.

That's for certain. As I said, I was born in 1933, and, my parents my mother was born in Italy as was my dad. They met here in Brooklyn and, got married in 1925. My mother was born in 18/99. My dad was born in 18/95.

As I said, they met here in Brooklyn, and, I guess there was some sort of courtship, which was rather, very restrictive in those days. I remember my mother saying, I mean, she and my father could never go out alone. They always had to have an aunt or an uncle of mine, one of the siblings of my, mother, escort them. Not that where the heck could anybody go in those days, mostly to, the movies maybe, or, you know, a visit to the park or to an ice cream store, that sort of thing, ice cream parlor and that sort of thing. So I as I said, and so they they met here, and they were married at, Lady of Peace Church, which is located on Carol Street between 3rd and fourth avenues.

It was a place where, people were told to go from Italy, to go there because, I guess, that church, which was an Italian church then, I think to a certain degree still has an Italian influence, but the area around that was pretty much Italian. And people coming from Italy will pretty much use that address to go there, which I wanna say was oh god. It just slips my mind. But, anyway, so they went there. And, and from there, I, you see, my grandfather came first, from Italy, and he in turn came because his brother had already been here.

And, and I guess, you know, he came, worked, and was able to get money to send to my grandmother, who then had, my aunt Jen and my mother and my uncle Pat. And so the the 4 of them came over on a ship and, landed in the you know, came to Carol Street. And from there, the they lived on President Street between, 4th and 5th Avenues and lived there for a number of years on one side of the street, and then they moved to an apartment across the street and so forth. And I guess they lived there up until the time my, family had money enough to buy a house on, 433 Second Street, which is on just above Sixth Avenue. It was a 4 story house with an apartment on each floor.

And that's where my grandmother and, by that time, she had, 3 other, daughters. You know, my aunt Mary, my aunt, Ada, and my aunt Anne were all born here in Brooklyn. My as I said, my mother, my uncle Pat, and my aunt Jenny were all born in Italy, and came here with my my grandmother. That gives you a little history there. And, and I must say, you know, things were not easy.

They worked hard, and, their education was rather limited. My mother went to, elementary school through the 7th grade and then went to work. I'm not sure where my aunt Jenny fits in, how much she went to school or any of that, and I I just never really knew. But she was the oldest of the 2 of the, 3 children that came from Italy. And they, in turn, you know, thing my uncle Pat, I know he he went through high school.

He was educated all the way, and so was my, the aunts that followed. But in the beginning, my mother, as I said, only went to 7th grade. And my aunt Jenny said, that's enough. It's time to go to work. And, of course, they went to work because they needed money.

And so my mother then went to work as a saleswoman in a in a store on Fifth Avenue between, between President and, Union Street. It was called Rebbeun's. It was a very, very fancy department store for its day. And they sold everything from carpet sweepers to men's and women's clothing to toys, which was a fascination for me, and things of that nature. In fact, one of the things I remember my mother saying that when she worked there, after the armistice was signed in 1918 or was it 1919?

But, anyway, I I should know. I think it was 1919, or maybe it was 1918. But, anyway, she remembers, you know, the a friend of hers, coming into the store to buy an American flag to fly because the armistice had been signed. My dad did serve in the army and during the First World War, and he, was wounded in, the Battle of, Oregon in France there. And, and, of course, I remember Mother telling me that when, he went to war, he was supposed to report he and all the soldiers were told to report to what is now, John Jay High School.

It was manual training in those days. And the so the men reported to that, high school, and the women, of course, followed. And from there, they marched down to the Long Island Railroad on Flatbush Avenue and Atlantic Avenues, where they would then get on a train that would take them out to, Camp Upton, on Long Island. And I remember Mother saying, everybody walked them heading along as they marched down Flappish Avenue and so forth. And we got to the station there.

It was time to say goodbye, and all the women were crying, obviously, because the men were going off to war. Those are some of the things that come back to me. As I said, I was born in 33, and the Depression started in 1929. And life was not easy, believe me, from the stories I hear. It was very, very hard.

And then, I remember my dad saying there was nothing, absolutely no work at all to do anything. My dad was a carpenter and had been trained in Italy and had gone as far as, the completion of high school. And, so, I mean, his family had some money, I suppose, considering, that they he was able to be educated, in Italy. And he came here on a trip, a visit, and he landed in South Amboy, New Jersey. And in South Amboy, New Jersey, from there he came to Brooklyn.

I really don't He must have known people in Brooklyn, because, he he came here, and it's somewhere along the way. My mother was working in the department store there, and they must have met and, had a very long courtship, I'm sure, because, she remembers, you know, I mean, she was already seeing my dad, before he went off to the Army, with the Army. And let's see, what else Yeah. And, I remember my mother saying to me when she was interested in my dad and my aunt Jenny saying to my dad, well, okay, but you have to come up to the house, which they did, because at that time they were living in, on on Second Street above 6th Avenue, 433. And, because things were very, very strict in those days, women didn't just float around very easily.

They, you know, had to be escorted. They never went alone to restaurants, and things like that. And, so, anyways, that's, the part of the story there. So what what was Park Slope like or known for when you were a kid? When I was a kid well, when my parents married, they took an apartment on the on a, Brownstone on Union Street just below Sixth Avenue.

I believe the number was 779 Union Street. And they knew the the, owners of the building and, his the owner's daughter and son-in-law and her family lived in the lower part of the Brownstone, and my parents had one floor above. And, that's where my sister Martha was born, lived way after she was born, in the Methodist hospital, and where my parents took me where I when I was born, to live. My youngest sister was born on Carol, also in the Methodist, but she lived on, we were living on Carol Street by then. Anyway, yes, I guess things were hard because I remember stories about mother saying, you know, I mean, there wasn't money set at one point to buy, food, for us, and, so I remember her saying that, when there wasn't anything left, and my dad was a very proud man and he didn't want, you know, help from anywhere or anything.

And my mother finally decided she would go down and get food stamps or whatever the ration stamps were called in those days, which she did. And I remember she came back, and my dad then had to run down to the board of health for some reason to so that the stamps were given or what. I'm not sure exactly. And from there on then, for a number of years, they you lived on, food stamps. And as I said, my father, you know, it was nothing.

And when he did get a job, it was for the WPA, the workmans, it just skips my mind the name of it. And, and, you know, they did all kinds of things, but my dad said he was glad to have a job and be able to come home with some money so they could live, you know, halfway decently. I can go on and on about all these hard times that existed. I did have pneumonia several times during that time. And, at one point, one of the visiting doctors who was, had an office on Sixth Avenue, between Union and Berkeley Place, and he was also from the same town, in Italy where my, grandmother and grandfather came from.

And I remember, he came to visit, and he said, you know, I was so bad that I should really go to the hospital. And, of course, in those days, the word hospital meant only one thing. And, of course, my mother was, you know, crying and upset and so forth. And then a very good friend of ours, she recommended that I have a specialist come visit. And that's where a doctor by the a pediatrician by the name of Walter Coles came down, and he said, if you take this child out, he'll die on the way in the hospital.

So, he gave treatments, and I had to be sponge bathed and so forth, because I had temperature of about 105 degrees, I'm tall. And with, you know, with with patience and care, I was able to, survive. And it's ironic, later on in life, after I was grown and everything, I met Doctor. Kohls, and I used to go to him as a child, you know, but I met him, socially. He lived 2 doors down from where I lived, and, where the woman, I married lived.

And in fact, he and his wife became friends. They were a lot older than we, my wife and I. But, we did, socialize with them, and they attended our wedding and so forth. It's ironic. But, anyway so that's the story there.

At that when you were young, was there, like, an Italian section of Park Slope, or what was the bottom end? Yes. So the Park Slope, the lower part, I'd say probably probably from Sixth Avenue down to probably Third Avenue, was very, very much Italian. Very, very much. And I can remember the stores along Fifth Avenue.

You know, you you ran into an Italian bread store, Italian pastry shops. Yes, it was very much Italian. And, the we had the Italian fruit stands and all that. At that time, there was an L on Fifth Avenue that went over, you ran up I believe, if I remember your hearing, it went down to the Brooklyn Bridge all the way out to 36th Street, and we were made a turn. And I guess it ended.

I can't remember the name of the street right now, but it was there, and it made stops along Fifth Avenue. I remember there was a stop on Union Street, and there was a stop on Third Street. And, yeah, they might have been born in between too, but I I just really can't remember. And I remember that being in existence, until around the beginning of World War 2, late 19 thirties, maybe 19 forties. I remember it coming down, and it made such a difference on the street.

But, yes, it did exist, and I'm trying to remember what it maybe it was called a cover line. Gosh. I I'm sorry. I can't remember that. And I remember, you know, taking it, and I remember one time going down down to downtown Brooklyn.

And when we we called downtown Brooklyn, that was Fulton Street, where those days you had department stores that were quite, elite, if if that's the correct word. I remember mother taking me to Loziers, to Abraham and Strauss, and, there was a very fancy store across the street on Fulton called Martin's, and there was a very another fancy store called Oppenheimer and Collins. And, there was a NAMM store, but for some reason, my family never went to that store. And I don't know why, but they just never did. And there was also a woman's store called Russicks.

And, I remember there was a store called Browning and King. And in good times, my dad took me there and bought me a suit and a winter coat and stuff like that. And, that had to be oh, maybe in the forties, 19 forties or so. Maybe a little bit later. No.

I guess it was the mid 19 forties. Yeah. Yes. I mean, those were the things that I do remember. And I started to say I remember its mother taking me down on the, the, 5th Avenue L, down to go downtown to Fulton Street.

And, I mean, to this day old timers refer to downtown not as New York, Wall Street or anything like that. Downtown meant Fulton Street, where the department stores were. And, there right next to A and S, there was a Woolworth, which I used to love to go into and, you know, look at the toy section and so forth. And Woolworths had a cafeteria there, where they served lunch, breakfast, and perhaps dinner. I'm not sure about that.

But anyway, where was I? Yes. We went down, and I remember mother hesitating because it was I was now old enough, instead of having white shoes, to have black shoes or brown shoes, but she hated to put them on me. I don't know why. I remember, you know, there was some hesitation, And, we she finally just said she was still gonna buy white shoes.

And I, you know, I was old enough. I didn't care what kind of shoes. And as we started back, she met a very good family friend, and she talked to the family. She said, let's go back and get the black shoes or the brown shoes. I guess it was brown, which we did.

So that that's a memory that came there. We also would go downtown on the 5th Avenue trolley, which rang along with its clang clang. And, and, and then once in a while, we would come up to Seventh Avenue where they had the, the streamline, electric, trolleys that went down and stopped right back of Abraham and Strauss. The bus still stops there now on, Livingston Street, goes along that street, and the back of the department stores are still face that street. Yes, I remember taking that too there.

I recall one time, we we took, I think it was the 5th Avenue trolley, down there, and then we decided we were gonna come back the other way. And so my mother gave the transfer thing to the, the other, trolley car guy and the modem in saying, you're not supposed to use these things, to do your shopping and and come another way. He was kinda rude. And, of course, mother being mother never argued with people. And, of course, you know, he accepted it when we got on there.

But, yes, I do remember that incident. I'm trying to think of other things along those lines. Yeah. The people are really very, very close to the churches. My parents were not weren't especially, religious, but, activities took place in churches and so forth.

And The Lady of Peace was the place where my parents were married, Then my mother received her sack the sacraments there, communion and, confession and, confirmation. And as I said, she was married there with my dad. In fact, my sister and I, we were baptized down in that church. And, by that time, we will then had moved from Union Street to a 3rd floor 3rd story apartment, on, Carol Street, and what my mother used to call a private house, meaning a brownstone, as opposed to apartments. And, so we lived there, and I guess that's where we I not a guest.

I know that's where I, and my sister and my sisters, we all made our communion and confession and, con confirmation there. And in fact, I was married at that church. This was Saint Francis Xavier Church on the corner of Carol and Sixth Avenue. My sister Martha was married at St. Augustine's because, at the time, something was happening at St. Francis, and they couldn't do the the wedding reception. So she was married in Saint Augustine's. Yeah. A lot of memories. And, I mean, I can go on and on.

When do we stop? Well, let me just ask a couple more questions. Would you mentioned these Italian stores and other stores on Fifth Avenue. Is that where you were? I mean, well, I as I recall, along Fifth Avenue, there was an Italian pork store, and there was Trun's, which was a very, very popular, store at the time.

And I think there was also Littron's on the corner of, Seventh Avenue and Garfield Place, I think, at one point. Anyway, my mother went and shopped down there, and there was these Italian grocery stores. She went to a place called Benny's, and, she would buy, you know, the canned goods and things like that. I remember during the, during the 2nd World War, I remember we lived on Carol Street, and I remember very, very vividly, we were having Sunday dinner, and the radio was on, and we heard about the bombing of Pearl Harbor. And, I remember everybody was, oh my gosh, you know, that kind of stuff.

And, yes, I remember that. I at that point, I was in 3rd grade. Yes. It was 3rd grade. So I must have been, well, that was the 41, so I was born in 33. So I must have been, what, 7 years old? That's you know, something like that. Yes. I do remember that. And I do remember, getting back to the Third Avenue, the Fifth Avenue L, I remember hearing that a lot of that scrap coming down, the L went to Japan who probably used it against us in this 2nd World War.

Yeah. The stores along Fifth Avenue were were were interesting. As I said, I remember, there were several Italian pastry stores where at summer, a window was open. One of the side of the store was open with a, a window, and they had spumoni and lemon ice and, that sort of thing sold, from inside the store, but, you stood outside in the window. And, yeah, I can I can recall 3 Italian pastry shops being in the neighborhood at that time?

And there were Italian bread stores where you went and you bought simply Italian bread, or you could get Italian, not cookies, but, things that you would use for soups and, things. I can't think of the name of it right now, but that's what you could buy in those chai and you could also buy bread, I mean, dough, and you could come home and you could make, things with your own your own fried things and so forth with the dough. There were many, many meat markets on on the avenue in those days, and they sold Italian sausages, and you could buy sweet and hot. And, we all always had pasta on Sunday. We didn't call it pasta.

Pasta was called spaghett a macaroni, And we didn't call it, sauce. We called it gravy. Gravy was simply red tomato sauce. And, I can remember every Sunday, mother getting up early and making, meatballs, which she would do with, breadcrumbs, egg, parsley, cheese, grated cheese, and maybe other things too. And she'd then she'd fry the meatballs, and then she would put them into this, what we call the gravy or the sauce, along with the sausages and sometimes a piece of pork, and the gravy was always there.

We always had Sunday dinner around 2 o'clock, and that dinner can consisted of pasta or macaroni. And we always had, the meatballs and the and the sausages and so forth after with bread. And then there was always chicken or some kind of a roast afterwards with potatoes, and usually peas maybe, or some vegetable like that. And then as the day wore on, we always had some sort of, desserts. They were probably pastries or, cakes that their mother would make or, biscotti and things of that sort.

It was very, very rare that we as a family went out for dinner. In fact, it probably almost completely rare. We always ate home partly because, of, I guess, the money situations and, so forth. Yes. The stores I remember there was a Tom McCan shoe store.

Mother would buy my shoes there. And, I'm trying to think of some of the others. Yeah. You could buy clothes and things of that nature. And, I'm trying to think.

Yeah? The butcher shop, so and there were these Italian delicatessins where you could buy fresh mozzarella and fresh ricotta cheese and, you know, prosciutto and, dry sausages and, pepperonis and, things of that sort. Yes, they were there. And then, as I remember, there was, the butcher shops, they were always around. There were several of them in those days.

And, and there was a an A&P, grocery store. A&P, which in those days was a big, chain. And that way, they were loaded down towards, 5th Avenue around 8th Street. And you went there and you bought, coffee, which was grind ground we say grounded right there in front of you. And mother would buy, oh, Red Circle.

I think that was when she you know, it was at 8 o'clock coffee. And there was a a boat car. Those are three names that come to mind. And that was the place where you could buy, Jane, no, Jane something, donuts and, things of that nature. And, of course, you know, things were cheaper in those in in there, but but it was seldom that we stopped there.

It was always the Italian grocery stores. So how did you meet your wife? How did you meet your wife? Well, I met my wife after serving in the army. After we lived on Carol Street, we moved to Third Street, between 5th and 6th avenues.

And that is a place that, I have fond recollections of the playground down between 4th and 5th avenues. We fortunately went away for the summers, but, like, the period of June before we went away, we would go down there and there was a, I don't know how to describe it. They would say it wasn't a pool by any means. It was something where you got with water up to your ankles. And we would, you know, young kids, we would, you know, in our bathing suits, sit there and play with the water and so forth.

It was pretty extensive, quite large. And it was very you know, we would come there and enjoy it in the in the early, hot weather in June, and, and maybe I don't really remember much of it in September, but I know June was the month there. Or we have 1 year we did not go away during the war, and, of course, we would go there. And then we would also go to, some place in the park where there was some sort of place where we as children could run into a little water and, stay cool. So how did you meet your wife?

Okay. When after, I came out of the army, my parents were still living on, Third Street. And they decided my dad was about to retire, and they decided I would take a small apartment on eighth Avenue and Carol Street. It was one of those very, you know, studio apartments. So they moved away, and I did.

And then and I was very much interested in what was happening to Park Slope. And I must say it was questionable in those days because things were not exactly right, and I joined the Park Slope Civic Council, which in those days was called the, South Brooklyn Board of Trade. Later on, it became, Bob Mackler, one of the, guys there. It became known as the, the Park Slope Civic Council. And, I joined that, And from there, by some miracle, I met my wife, who also belonged to the Santa Civic Council.

And after a while, we did things like plant trees and, gardens and, worked on the school system in 321 and and all that. And we met there, and, after a year or so, we became engaged and got married. So that's how I met my wife. So I know a lot of people during that period left Park Slope, and a lot of new people came. Yes.

And why did you stay? Because I love this area. I liked it very I always did, and I felt that it really was a, point of it. Yes. One of the things my wife and I did was to get people to involve and become members of the civic council and tell them that what we were doing, trying to save the neighborhood.

And, I, you know, I can't say that we saved the neighborhood, but we certainly stopped the thing. There were all kinds of things going with redlining and all that kind of stuff, all of which is, a shame. But yes, I mean, we we prevented friends, and I would talk to them, and especially the people who lived way up here on, the park side of the places, because they many of those were one family homes, and people were just, you know, moving away, because the neighborhood changed. And they felt that, you know, they wouldn't get their money for their houses and so forth. And then we I must say we stopped the tide at one point, and thanks to the Brooklyn Union Gas Company, they came and they did the things, and, and I mean, I can go on and on, but, yes, we stayed and, we decided that my wife owned a Brownstone at the time on Second Street, and we decided to live there without kids growing up, there and, and live there until we felt that it was time to downsize instead of living in a 4 story house to come, you know, get an apartment.

And that's what we did. And, is there something that you think people don't know about Park Slope that they should know? Oh, there's a lot of things about Park Slope that people don't know. The people that lived here, it was a very wealthy neighborhood. And, I mean, I was not part of it at all, but I certainly knew learned about it.

I mean, when when when I think of, the the families that lived along the park and down the side streets and the upper parts and so forth, there was plenty of money here. Plenty of moneyed families. And, and, you know, we wanted to make sure that they stayed and didn't just abandon the area, which I must say they did. Most of them did. And what's your vision for Park Slope in the future?

Well, I think it'll always be a nice neighborhood. I think, you know, generations, for instance, my children don't live in Brooklyn, and a lot of my friends' children don't live in Brooklyn, and a lot of them now have moved away to Florida and so forth and so on. But I think the neighborhood will hold itself, I hope it does, but I certainly don't plan to go, and you know, I mean, I'll probably, as I said, born here and probably spend my last days here. Alright. Is there anything else you wanna add or any memories at all?

At some point, you and I will go over this, and I'll add to and I'll subtract to Okay. And so forth. I mean, I wrote up about a lot of this. It's quite lengthy, and maybe I if I'm nice, I might let you read it at some point, and you can, you know, ask me questions about it. Yes, I mean, it was a nice neighborhood to be born in, and, and, yeah, I mean, there were things.

I can remember my father saying when he was this is before he was married, he would go on a certain street. And if you didn't belong there and the Chinese didn't, it might have been one where maybe Irish Americans or whatever lived on there. And they asked him for a cigarette. And my dad offered him his pack, and they beat him up. And, you know, and it was that was the way there were little street gangs in those days, where you didn't go on to the street if you didn't belong there.

I guess there were Italian neighborhoods, there were Irish neighborhoods there, and who knows what else. And I remember my dad saying there was a theater on Fourth Avenue, now I believe it's a church, called the Terminal Theater. Terminal taking the name from the Atlantic Terminal, where the, Long Island Railroad comes in. And then, he said he would go to the Brooklyn Academy of Music, which in those days, the Metropolitan Opera would come over every other Tuesday night and perform in Brooklyn. And, Caruso and, all the Italian, singers would sing at the MET, while they were at the Brooklyn Academy Music.

And he remembers being there the night, Caruso had his, throat problem. Yes. That's great. Alright. Well, thank you so much, Tina.

And I wanna hit pause.